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Heat Pump Workshop - Shared screen with gallery view
Lauren Sargent
20:15
Will presenters address bulk buy/neighborhood discount for geothermal, heat pump water heaters, air source heat pump hvac? When we re- did our roof and druveway we saved 30% on each by doing the work at the same time as 2 neighbors. Thanks
Kyle Kwaiser
20:25
Missy's pumped up.
Zach Waas Smith (him) Ann Arbor
25:09
Hi Everyone! I'm a Community Engagement Specialist in the Office of Sustainability & Innovations. Happy to be here in support of my rockstar colleagues Missy, Julie, and Fang!
Lauren Sargent
25:34
How can we bring geothermal or air source heat pump hvac into cost neutrality with bad old fracked gas hvac?
Zach Waas Smith (him) Ann Arbor
25:49
Feel free to use the chat to submit questions publicly or DM them directly to any of the OSI staff.
Lauren Sargent
27:17
Very very few in A2 are doing new construction (and tearing down existing buildings is a climate disaster). Reuse and recycle our built environment
Lauren Sargent
32:33
What about those of us who cannot wait until fall for hvac? Any bulk discounts now? Rebates?
Julie Roth
33:16
Hi Lauren! Nothing that the city has organized yet, but individual manufacturers may have rebates going individually.
Lauren Sargent
33:18
Pilot here!
Michelle Peet
33:33
Yes, pilot
Alan Waller
35:58
Alan Waller I am the Territory Manager with WaterFurnace International. Manufacture of Geothermal Heat Pumps, We do have a Clean Start Rebate through 6.18.21,
Brett Little
36:36
Hi, Al! How does that work?
Julie Roth
36:37
Great, Alan!
Alan Benard
36:49
Would you be interested in educating the board of a local housing cooperative?
Lauren Sargent
37:01
Who drills, installs Water Furnace here?
Jim Reed (Cappy Heating & A/C)
37:53
Cappy Heating installs WaterFurnace
Alan Waller
40:12
$1,250.00 instant rebate to contractor when purchase a 7 Series Variable Speed unit with accessories, or $750.00 instant rebate when contractor purchase a 5 Series 2 stage unit with accessories, Then the savings is passed on to homeowner in quote from installing WaterFurnace Contractor
Alan Waller
43:23
For added information on the WaterFurnace Clean Start Rebate Visit, https://www.waterfurnace.com/cleanstart
Brett Little
46:57
I don't see too many IAQ monitors (or really none) that monitor NO2. Has anyone seen one? Is there a substitute for it like CO2 or Pm2.5?
Julie Roth
48:19
Great question, Brett, we will elevate that in the Q&A.
Lauren Sargent
49:45
Is bulk buy for induction ranges in place yet?
Ryan Graydon
50:15
I was recently hired for a job in Chicago and will be relocating there soon. I’ve been searching for a place to live in Chicagoland and am unhappily surprised how common it is for all the appliances in the house (stove, clothes dryer, water heater) are fueled by natural gas in nearly all the houses! I plan to be all electric but it’s a tremendous challenge!
DANIEL
50:17
What is NO2?
Julie Roth
50:41
Daniel, Nitrogen Dioxide
Ryan Graydon
50:51
NO2 is Nitrous Oxide, a polluant regulated by the EPA under the Clean Air Act, but that’s only for outdoor air, not indoor air
Fang Wu
51:08
https://www.epa.gov/no2-pollution/basic-information-about-no2#:~:text=Nitrogen%20Dioxide%20(NO2)%20is,larger%20group%20of%20nitrogen%20oxides.
Ryan Graydon
51:09
*Nitrogen Dioxide
Alan Waller
51:37
Renewable Natural Gas? when is it reused?
Mark Clevey
52:32
Why not "Green" Gas that doesn't leak fugitive methane? Burning natural gas isn't the problem, fugitive methane is the problem.
Brett Little
52:44
Good luck, Ryan! I know comed has some electrification pilots. Not sure if it is new homes only or not.
Wayne Appleyard
54:09
Mark, I disagree. combusting anything produces CO2 and we can't continue to do that. we need to cequester CO2 that is already out there.
Mark Clevey
54:42
Where is all this electricity going to come from if not Green Gas and Renewables?
Julie Roth
55:01
Renewables, Mark :)
Ryan Graydon
55:22
Thanks, @Brett!
Mark Clevey
55:38
Heavy Lift!
Lauren Sargent
55:39
Very few of us in Michigan use electric resistance heat or electric hot water heating
Julie Roth
55:56
Lauren, 22% of Ann Arbor is using electric resistant heating.
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
56:41
She mentioned 22% of homes in A2 have some electric resistance heat and there are a lot of electric water heaters out there.
Michelle Peet
56:57
What is electric resistant heating?
Missy Stults (she/her)
57:07
We switched to an electric water heater and are really appreciating it
Jeremy (jeremy@oakelectric.com)
57:17
electric baseboard heat
Brett Little
57:31
Question for everyone, is there heat in the air in the winter time?
Mike Nowak
57:45
Like electric baseboard heating
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
57:48
Its like running a toaster 24/7 to heat your home. Common in the 1970's when electricity was cheap. Still installed.
Lauren Sargent
58:13
That is very few Julie, and mostly apartments that renters have no say in hvac system decisions. Electric water heaters are rare. The newer electric heat pump water heaters like the Rheem Proterra are a different animal.
Jeremy (jeremy@oakelectric.com)
58:46
DTE gave incentives years ago to have an all electric home, these homes all had electric baseboard heating.
John Beeson
59:44
doesn’t that depend on our grid? or was that claim for AA?
Brett Little
59:48
DTE now has all electric rebates for all electric new home or major gut renovations. $10 - $15,000 +
Alan Waller
01:00:16
Air to Air heat pumps are less efficient when they need to be the most efficient, As the outdoor air temperature goes below freezing, the efficiency ratings drop considerably
Kevin DeMaster
01:00:43
There is always heat in the air! Freezers are examples of heat pumps remove heat from inside and send out the back. So you all have a heat pump, good first start!
Rob Michigan Energy Services
01:00:58
I have lived in an all electric home in Michigan with Geothermal for 30+ years. It’s very realistic to electrify
Wayne Appleyard
01:01:00
air to air heat pumps are a lot cheaper to install than a geo system
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
01:01:10
Look into newer models like Mitsubishi Hyperheat or Bryant Evolution Extreme systems.
Ryan Spangler
01:01:32
Mitsubishi has two GREAT programs running for consumers. The program can be found at https://tinyurl.com/zppr9m6t. If someone is interested in financing...we also have major opportunities at no interest for these products as well.
Wayne Appleyard
01:01:38
Love my hyperheat
Mark Clevey
01:02:13
Coal is not nearly gone enough!
Julie Roth
01:02:25
Coal in houses, Mark!
Michelle Peet
01:02:31
What's an alternative to gas fireplaces?
Lauren Sargent
01:02:49
Matt has geothermal, not air source heat pump. It was a full gut remodel. We have zoning, road commission and lot line constraints that make geo difficult in may areas of A2. What are we doing to surmount these obstacles?
Brett Little
01:02:52
I've seen LED fireplaces that fooled me.
Carolyn Stark
01:03:13
What’s the difference between geothermal technology and heat pump technology?
Mark Clevey
01:03:24
Coal "emissions" are not nearly gone enough...
Julie Roth
01:03:29
Carolyn, Doug is about to cover that.
Greg Driscoll
01:03:37
Mitsubishi is currently offering $ 500 instant rebate from
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:03:40
I believe the argument was that coal is gone from direct heating of homes
Rob Michigan Energy Services
01:03:46
Carolyn, Geothermal absorbs heat energy from the earth not the air
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
01:04:12
Geothermal heat pumps use the earth as the heat source. Air to Air heat pumps use the heat in the air.
Ryan Spangler
01:04:38
Me too, Wayne!
Jennifer Stimac
01:05:01
Bryant ductless offers products that have amazing heat performance at low temperatures. There is a product that is 42 SEER and 15 HSPF that is 100% heat capacity at -13*F.
Kevin DeMaster
01:06:47
Electric Heat today? Find DTE rebates for Mitsubishi Electric https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/rebates-and-financing.
Mark Clevey
01:06:57
Natural Gas costs do not include climate change from fugitive methane leaks.
Brett Little
01:07:35
Unless the gas leak is on your side of the meter and we find many home with gas leaks on the inside!
Brett Little
01:07:41
homes*
John Beeson
01:09:28
i use a 100% solar and wind clothes dryer… it’s a line in the back yard, or a wrack in the house.. :P
Alan Waller
01:10:09
Will still have to pay a gas meter charge.
Ana Sophia, RMI
01:10:35
Not if you disconnect from the line all together :)
Alan Waller
01:12:23
400 - 500 % with Geothermal heat pumps
Ryan Spangler
01:12:29
Corrected link to Mitsubishi Electric's Midwest ONLY promotion. https://tinyurl.com/5ebnp9vr
Michelle Peet
01:12:35
Can a central heat pump connect to all the devices?
Elizabeth Connors
01:13:13
Can heat pump ground area be located near water pipes?
Jim Reed (Cappy Heating & A/C)
01:13:53
YES
Brigit Macomber
01:14:40
I've had a Lennox heat pump for about 7 years. The valve makes so much noise when it turns on that I had to have the unit moved around the house. Do newer heat pumps have that same issue?
Rob Michigan Energy Services
01:15:01
New heat pumps are extremely quiet
Alan Waller
01:15:09
Refrigerant in vapor state absorbs heat, (Evaporator) refrigerant in liquid state rejects the heat. (Condenser) Outdoor unit.
Elizabeth Connors
01:15:24
Great. It is about time that this idea is getting traction. I saw geothermal heated/cooling homes in MA in the late '70s.
John Beeson
01:15:27
That’s my biggest concern with all the heat pump installations.. a hidden unintentional consequence: noise pollution. I already experience with my neighbors and I always use my windows through the summer, so it really sucks.
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
01:16:02
Most new equipment is very quiet.
Mike Nowak
01:16:44
I’m guessing if you have a newer high efficiency gas furnace, it would be more economical to wait until it reached the end of its useful life?
Elizabeth Connors
01:16:56
My new gas water heater is really noisy, so not a problem for me.
Rob Michigan Energy Services
01:16:57
New product launched by Enertech Global called the Advantage Air to water heat pump American made
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
01:17:42
you can install an efficient heat pump in combination with your new furnace if you want to gain the benefits now.
Christopher Lynch
01:17:42
Agree. Andy installed a min-split for me to heat and cool a large room far from the furnace and it is unbelievably quiet, both inside and outside. Like a quiet whisper quiet.
Kevin DeMaster
01:17:54
heat pumps so quiet you can carry on conversation next to it with inverter compressor (variable speed) type.
Jennifer Stimac
01:18:19
You can find rebate, financing and product information for Bryant heat pumps at www.bryantductless.com
Mike Nowak
01:18:48
Can you say more about that Andy?
Mike Nowak
01:19:03
About a hybrid system?
Julie Roth
01:19:22
We can discuss hybrid systems in the Q&A if you’d like
Lauren Sargent
01:19:24
Air source heat pumps don’t get the 26% federal tax credit that Geo does. Any help on this front?
Bentley Johnson
01:19:32
Thanks for this great info, Missy, Doug, Ana, others. As I've told Fang, we are interested in being part of the pilot and in all the fall programs. Would like to try and install a heat pump as soon as possible but could probably wait until fall.
Nate Vohwinkle
01:19:41
Thanks Doug! Geothermal Innovations www.gi-4.com, for questions, please email me at nate@geoii.com!
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:19:53
Thanks, Bentley. You are on the list!
Erich Zechar
01:20:04
Put me on pilot list as well
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:20:16
Got you, Erich!
Elizabeth Connors
01:20:24
Me too!
Julie Roth
01:20:32
There will be a survey going out after the workshop, please add your names to the list on the survey :)
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:20:39
You're on the list!
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:20:57
And please do fill out the survey post event where we can learn more and figure out how best to support. Thanks!
Alan Waller
01:21:42
Spent $1,600 on added insulation of a 1992 constructed home, lowered the AC tonnage and Htg BTU requirement by 30% - 40%
John Beeson
01:26:22
my neighbor is residing her home and I tried to get her to retrofit to at least the current energy code…. no go :(
Jennifer Stimac
01:27:46
Love the analogy :)
John Beeson
01:28:37
and to play with the analogy further: our homes are like teenagers who won’t put on a coat… a t-shirt is enough.
Julie Roth
01:28:49
Ha
Jennifer Stimac
01:29:09
Haha :)
Ryan Graydon
01:30:00
Q for Doug Selby, what do you use for backup heating?
Kathleen Giesting
01:32:05
recommendations for efficiency audits? i know i could use more insulation.
Julie Roth
01:32:33
There are two auditors here, they will be answering questions
Alan Waller
01:33:28
Have to listen to the neighbors
Sterling Windmill
01:35:07
I’ve had great experiences with Douglas King from Pro Energy ConsultantVery detailed, actionable, and collaborative energy audits - he recommended we look into heat pumps to replace our aging HVAC gear which led to me being here ;)
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:35:31
Thank you all for attending. We'll have a panel with contractors next to help answer your questions. If you need to leave before we end, please consider sharing your feedback here: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=haWvSHVjcEG50enFaLuS852fa7f1qwNHnsdJ_CETSFRUM0k1N0NKT1NYOVZHTTZMNVNQUFlLUzdEUC4u.
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:35:59
We'll also send a link to this survey after the meeting, along with a link to the recording.
Elizabeth Connors
01:36:23
Thank you, Missy.
Wayne Appleyard
01:36:37
CO2 stays in the atmosphere for decades so the sooner you reduce your output the better.
Alan Waller
01:39:51
Great Presentation
Kevin Jones
01:40:46
Great information Doug! Super helpful.
Jean Becker
01:40:57
If you have roof solar and a battery and the power goes off, how long will the battery power a refrigerator?
Elizabeth Connors
01:41:00
Thank you Doug!
Jennifer Stimac
01:41:02
Thank you Doug!
Nate Vohwinkle
01:41:15
Great Doug!
Carolyn Stark
01:41:31
Thanks! Great workshop!
Kathleen Giesting
01:42:17
I've a very small lot. Is there a minimum size/area needed for a geothermal heat pump?
Michelle Peet
01:42:38
"The form doesn't exist" via link in chat
Scott Trudeau
01:43:01
🙋🏻‍♂️ would be in pilot; we're anticipating a furnace replacement w/in the next year or 3
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:43:19
We are Here is the evaluation: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=haWvSHVjcEG50enFaLuS852fa7f1qwNHnsdJ_CETSFRUM0k1N0NKT1NYOVZHTTZMNVNQUFlLUzdEUC4u
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:43:25
Got you, Scott
Devon Akmon
01:43:39
Please add us for consideration of the pilot program
Nate Vohwinkle
01:44:00
I think we have a solution to the space requirement for Geothermal. www.gi-4.com uses roughly 1/3 of the space/drilling requirement versus typical U-Bend
Erich Zechar
01:44:08
We had a recent quote from an HVAC company and they wouldn’t quote us an air source heat-pump without a supplemental gas furnace.
Jeremy (jeremy@oakelectric.com)
01:44:48
Erich, we can and we can connect it to the solar we just installed.
Rob Michigan Energy Services
01:45:02
Erich , We will
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
01:45:04
That is a common misconception with some installers. The contractors here understand the systems better.
Ilene Tyler
01:45:06
Does the pilot program include water heaters and clothes dryers? I am interested in upgrading and switching from gas. Thanks…
Erich Zechar
01:45:57
What is the timeline for this pilot program?
Susan Cybulski
01:46:13
I appreciated Doug’s holistic presentation, thank you!
Jean Becker
01:46:31
thanks
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:46:33
We hope to work with interested individuals over the course of their journey - which could be 3 months, 6 months, 12 months. But we also hope to launch some initiatives in the fall
Alan Benard
01:47:41
is it possible to do attached town homes?
Missy Stults (she/her)
01:47:59
Ilene, we are piloting heat pumps with this initiative but we are doing other work on range replacement and looking at water heaters. That said, I'd recommend signing up and we can work collaboratively on all things beneficial electrification
Ilene Tyler
01:49:59
Ok, Missy, please add me to the list for the pilot program. Thank you!
Kathleen Giesting
01:50:08
what does a typical audit cost? e.g. 2000 SF home
Brett Little
01:50:37
$300 for ours https://greenhomeinstitute.org/homeenergyscore/
Fang Wu
01:50:40
It costs around $300
Ryan Spangler
01:52:19
Kathleen....that depends on where you're located. Some localities might pay for the entire thing if you're truly interested in going electric. You can press your local utility company for options.
Wayne Appleyard
01:53:05
my resistance heaters on my hyper heat never came on but its there if we need it
John Beeson
01:53:20
are there any plans for incentives for insulation and air sealing?
Julie Roth
01:53:50
John, would love to talk about that
Jennifer Stimac
01:54:01
Bryant also has an air handler paired with a ductless outdoor unit with optional electric heat available.
John Beeson
01:55:16
@julie.. yeah, it’s killing me to watch my neighbor re-siding her house right now and not insulating.. they contractors are barely even putting up an air barrier. I imagine they had to get a permit, so couldn’t this have changed with the permit process to require meeting the current energy code?
Alan Waller
01:56:23
Variable Speed Compressors have very low Lock rotor amps. (LRA) and also soft starters that are available, where a 4 ton unit standard unit may draw 109 LRA on start up, with the soft starter, LRA drps to 35 - 40 amps
Julie Roth
01:56:29
John, let’s talk later, along with Zach :)
Ryan Spangler
01:58:12
You can find your local rebates at https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/rebates-and-financing/rebates
Scott Adelsbach
01:58:29
Split system geo connected to a furnace is a great way to back up.Geo.
Rob Michigan Energy Services
01:59:42
Scott - Correct if that meets your goals of electrification it is a great way to go. Our last A2 install was exactly that.
Alan Waller
02:01:25
Geothermal costs per month during ac season , 3,00 sq ft home, $35 - $40 per month
Ryan Spangler
02:02:08
Mitsubishi currently has 226 eligible utility rebates in Michigan.
Mac McCabe
02:02:21
Michigan Saves offers low interest financing for energy efficiency and renewables. www.michigansaves.org
Brett Little
02:03:44
Here is one on my house https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT3f9DlKd8s
Brett Little
02:08:08
With high home values and low interest rates the mortgage is a great place to do fund this. That is what I did! Learn more https://www.buildwithrise.com/stories/financing-a-carbon-zero-home-renovation
Scott Adelsbach
02:08:09
We have a drill rig that can drill in a space as little as 36" in width, or in basements etc... We could start loop installation company locally with enough interest. www.geothermaldrillingsolutions.com
Brigit Macomber
02:08:38
do heat pumps still make a lot of noise when turning on?
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
02:08:56
no. some are almost silent.
Laura Roth
02:09:00
Heat pumps are good for pools. How about hot tubs?
Kathleen Giesting
02:09:02
can we get a copy of the chat -- with links/
Rob Michigan Energy Services
02:09:10
Scott Contact me at Michigan Energy about your rig.
Caitlin Burr
02:09:24
If you hit the 3 dots you can save
Andy Bobo (abobo@cmrmechanical.com)
02:09:36
Contact me at CMR. Thanks, Andy Bobo
Brigit Macomber
02:09:38
can questions not answered get answered in the chat when it's sent?
Greg Driscoll
02:09:57
Most Ductless heat pumps are soft started and draw very little power on startup. Great for solar and generators.
Lauren Sargent
02:09:59
Ditto on heat pumps for hot tubs and copy of this
Kathleen Murphey
02:09:59
Great workshop!
Nate Vohwinkle
02:10:01
Thanks everyone! Great info!
Ginny Rogers
02:10:04
Thanks so much
Ken Winter
02:10:08
Thanks to everyone!
Lauren Sargent
02:10:13
Thank you all!
Zach Waas Smith (him) OSI
02:10:14
Brigit, you can submit specific questions to sustainability@a2gov.org
Jennifer Stimac
02:10:23
Thank you!